John Shields

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  • in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1357
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 1 May 2020

    For sea level changes along the Solway coast, see Peter Friend, Scotland, Collins New Naturalist 2012, 87-9. The sea-level curve at fig. 56 shows a drop of  nearly 4 metres in the past 2000 years, quite sufficient to make a marked difference to the geography of the bays and estuaries. Add sand-dune formation (ibid. 91) and sedimentary deposits, the appearance of the Bay would have been very different when the Vikings arrived 1000 years back. Remember there was still a creek in Kirkcudbright as far in as the Soaperie Gardens where high tides probably reached as recently as the 17th century.

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1356
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Nic Coombey – 1 May 2020

    Hello Alan and David

    a couple of observations:

    There is an additional likely ancient stone fishtrap at Goatwell Bay which is marked on the early 1800s fishtrap map of Kirkcudbright Bay as ‘old stone yair’ (the same name given to the one at Devil’s Thrashing Floor) and can still be seen at low tide – see OS map attached.

    Goat Well Bay

    I do not believe that sea levels have changed much over the last 2,000 years in Brighouse Bay although the sand within the bay changes with every storm event. Shell middens revealed in the sand dunes at Brighouse Bay by construction of gas pipeline were dated as 2,000 years old, (an iron spear head and mould for a counterfeit Roman coin). Mostly periwinkle shells in the middens and no fish bones were found / identified.  See archaeology report; http://www.dgnhas.org.uk/tdgnhas/3069.pdf

    Nic

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1355
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 29 April 2020

    Dear David

    Many thanks for that most interesting and helpful, detailed reply. I’ll take the liberty of sharing it with others involved in the current place-name activity in Borgue, I’m sure they’ll be very interested and might have observations to add.

    Concerning Brighouse, my idea of the history of the settlements here would go back to the Norse-speaking settlers in the 10th century, when, allowing for the drop in relative sea-level and formation of the dune system over the subsequent millennium, the bay would have been more of a ‘sandy creek’, *Sand-vík, gaelicised *Sandaig, Sannaig, anglicised Sannick, Senwick. The tide could have flowed almost half a mile further inland towards where Senwick House now stands. A route from Ross Bay via Senwick towards Borgue and further west would have crossed the head of the creek, and perhaps ran via Cairniehill, where the existing farm track looks to be a relic of an old way.

    Fast-forward through the centuries, as the sea receded and the dunes formed, the route would have crossed marshy ground and the burn flowing down from Senwick, gradually changing course to take advantage of the drier land on the dunes. By the 18th century, it would have been close to the present-day line, and a bridge over the burn gave the adjacent farm its name (not sure exactly when first recorded: by mid 18th century, as it’s  on Roy’s map).

    As to the putative fish-trap, indeed Mike Ansell and I thought that feature off Rockvale was the most ‘hook-like’ one on the 1854 map, and the aerial photo at least hints that there may have been some barrier, probably an adaptation of the natural rock formation, that would have formed a pool where fish could, perhaps with the aid of a net or wicker fence, have been trapped when the tide ebbed. The ‘C-trap’ at Fishguard is an interesting comparison: cored is well attested in GPC, from the Book of Llandaf onwards (also, as gored, in Breton); I think such features may have been pretty common in coves around the Irish Sea, largely unrecognised as they became barely distinguishable from natural rock formations. Part of any such trap at Rockvale might well have been destroyed when the landing-place was built c1800. However, it’s rather further from the field apparently called ‘Hac Ness’, which seems to be the one by the turning-place on the road; on the shore there, there is another tidal pool, smaller but clearly visible on the aerial photo, though there isn’t any such obvious ‘hook’.

    What you say about Rockvale is interesting, and largely confirms what I suspected. I’d thought the ‘quay’ was probably c1800 and more of a protective wall than a landing place in itself. The possible fish-house is indeed tantalising. I’m a little perplexed that Adam Gray noted Rockvale as ‘a smithy holding’, if there was a blacksmith here, he would probably have been employed with ironware for boats rather than shoeing horses. But maybe the croft was associated with Senwick Smithy shown on the 1854 up near Senwick House.

    Devil’s Threshing-Floor – in stormy conditions, the water here can look ferociously agitated, hurling seriously sizeable rocks about, even up onto the road, as you’ll recall happened a few years back – was it Feb 2015? The right-angled feature here is very striking on the 1854 map, as you say similar to the Fishguard one. And the one at Monreith Bay is a nice example, somewhere between the ‘C’ and ‘V’ styles, I think: I wonder if Sir Herbert ever mentioned it in his writings?

    I trust you’re all keeping safe and well under lockdown. While the news is sad and troubling, so far as I’m affected, it’s made rather little difference to the way I usually live, I’d even confess to quite enjoying it!

    Alan

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1354
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From David Devereux – 28 April 2020

    Hello Alan

    I hope this finds you well. Thank you again for your very interesting email and my apologies for the long delay in replying to it. I don’t know of any detailed studies of fish-traps around the Galloway coast, though the cruivies and yairs in the Luce and Cree estuaries, the Dee and at Tongland of course are mentioned in a variety of sources. I’m not aware of much particularly on stone fish-traps locally, but see the following notes.

     

    I think you may be on to something at Brighouse Bay, although I’m seeing possible fish-traps in a slightly different location in the bay. The OSA for Borgue makes no mention of fishing here, but the NSA (1841) refers to a salmon fishery ‘off the South Park shore, at the entrance into Brighouse Bay’ which had just started operation in that year.  The account states that this was a bag-net arrangement at the mouth of the bay. Possibly related to this, Canmore describes the small building on Rockvale Quay as a fish-house, and the quay itself as late C18th (after John Hulme, and see attached aerial photo from Canmore). I’m not sure what evidence Hulme had to identify the building as a fish-house, rather than a general store. Having discussed this point with David Collin, the well-built quay is better described as a short breakwater or mole as its cambered sides would not permit a vessel to be tied up alongside it. There were landing quays proper behind it and a jetty (presumably wooden) projecting from it, but the latter now gone. These can be seen on the 1895 OS 25″map attached.

    However the 1895 map may also show evidence of an earlier fishery in the form of a curving or hook-shape bank of stone a little further down the bay (marked with a yellow line on the map and aerial view). It may be significant that it matches the curve of the quay and former jetty, and a continuing northward line of stones (also marked). Although clearly depicted on the OS 1854 6″ and 1895 25″ maps, the feature is only just faintly visible today in the aerial view (below the yellow line), and may now be hidden by mud and sand; I’ll aim to visit to see it at low tide at the first opportunity. This form would appear to fit the ‘crescent’ type of stone fish trap as classified by Bannerman & Jones (1999)*;  see the illustration attached from Goodwick Beach, Fishguard (from p.20 Medieval and Early Post-Medieval Fish Traps – Dyfed Archaeological Trust, 2013). I note from this that these are called cored or gored (pl.goreddi) in Welsh. This type can occur in pairs, to allow for the variations in the height of the water at spring and neap tides.

    Given its shape, could this be the ‘Hac-Noose’ as either the ‘fish-trap headland’ or ‘hooked headland’?

    The only other possible stone fish-trap I know of in the Stewartry is ‘The Devil’s Thrashing Floor’ in the Dee a little upstream from Senwick. This is shown clearly on the OS 6″ 1854 map – see attached (my yellow line below it). This would appear to be a classic ‘V’ shape trap (Bannerman & Jones), generally much larger than the crescent-shape type, with the apex of the ‘V’ pointing downstream.  The Drumboy trap in the Lough Swilly report is a similar example and there’s another again at Goodwick, Fishguard  – see photo attached (from p.19 in the Dyfed report). Here the outer arm or leader is intact but only a short part of the inner leader on the shore side survives. The rest was lost when the railway track was laid along the shoreline.  The OS Name Book compiler for Borgue parish found no explanation for the unusual name he was given and stated as much. But I would guess this is a case where a large and  inexplicable topographical  feature was superstitiously linked to the Devil, and as the feature took the form of a flail, the area was assumed to be his threshing floor!  A fine example of another type of fish-trap lies just off Monreith beach (see photo). This type is described as an elongated crescent, constructed parallel to the shoreline, with either end turned slightly towards the shore.

    I hope this of interest and would be pleased to hear whether you think the possible fish-traps might fit the ‘hac-noose’ field name. Thank you for directing my attention to Brighouse Bay in this way. The name ‘Brighouse’ here and elsewhere in Scotland also interests me – I don’t see many significant bridges near them, but that would be going off at a tangent!

    best wishes

    David

    *Bannerman N, Jones C (1999) Fish-trap types: a component of the maritime cultural landscape. Int J Naut Archaeol 28:70–84

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1353
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 28 March 2020

    I’m sure there are, and the history and archaeology of fish-traps along our Galloway coast seems no to have been studies by anyone in much detail, though plenty of sources acknowledge their existence, and importance.

    One very interesting recent article about fish-traps on Lough Swilly Co. Donegal includes this observation in the Conclusion, 136-7: The seventeenth century saw significant changes in the political and social culture of Ireland, and the shores of the Swilly were transformed from a Gaelic-dominated landscape to one shaped by settlers predominantly from south-western Scotland, with the Stewart and Cunningham families, from Ayrshire and Galloway respectively, particularly significant.The small communities of their countrymen that followed stood in contrast to the natives in the landscape to the extent of physical separation; as seen from the placenames Scots Aughnish and Irish Aughnish (PRONI D2358/5/1). The Scots arriving in Ulster were familiar with fish traps as a component of their maritime economy — with examples in stone on exposed coasts predominant in Ayrshire and Galloway.

    The classic discussion of fish-traps in Scotland, still regularly cited, seems to be: Bathgate, Thomas D. (1949) ‘Ancient fish-traps or yairs in Scotland’. Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, 83, 98-102 – it’s a charmingly-written account, full of interesting detail.  I attach the pdf. More detail on traps he mentions on Loch Broom and the inner Moray Firth can be found at:

    https://her.highland.gov.uk/Monument/MHG7841

    https://www.scottishheritagehub.com/content/case-study-intertidal-fish-traps-inner-moray-firth

    Looking at the maps and photos in those various sources makes me think that ‘hook’ projecting from near the quay at Rockvale could well be a relic of a trap, though probably not a very ancient one – late medieval – early modern. But if ‘Hac Noose’ is < OE haca ‘hook’, I’d still think it referred to the rocks below the field; if it was *hæcc in the sense of a fish-trap, it is very likely that there were traps in this corner of the bay from prehistoric times – while the topography has changed over the centuries, it’s just the kind of spot where the natural rock formations and flow of the water round the bay would have made an ideal location for them.

    I’m going to forward this conversation to David Devereux, I think he might find it interesting, and may know of studies that have been done of fish-traps around our coastline.

    Sorry to hear of your son’s experience with The Virus, it does sound very nasty, one feels there is a certain English stoical restraint prevailing at the moment, just keep a stiff upper lip and carry on. What our leaders will learn from first-hand experience will shortly become apparent!

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1352
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From MIchael Ansell – 27 March 2020

    Sounds interesting Alan, I’ll take a look when (if?) this virus blows over. Take care by the way, my son contracted it in Austria and he says it is vicious. He is gradually getting better but it’s much worse than flu according to him.

    Kind Regards

    Michael

    PS your detective work on this name prompts the thought that there could be many more remains of such traps along the coast, after all you would expect landowners to exploit the resource if the topography allowed.

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1351
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 27 March 2020

    Comparing even the 1854 map with present ones, it’s clear the tide-line has receded, and sand has built up,

    as much as a meter I’d guess, over the past 150 years or so, never mind 1000+.

    Looking further at the map, the building of the quay and jetty and maybe excavation of the channel approaching it

    could have modified the geography a bit, but the inlet near the field is where I see a possible fish-trap.

    It happens to be a spot (not known to many) where I like to park my car and get down onto the sand.

    I think the rounded inlet is still a noticeable feature, though much of it now above all but exceptional tides,

    but it hadn’t occurred to me that it could have been a fish-trap until I thought about that mysterious name.

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1350
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Michael Ansell – 27 March 2020

    Thanks Alan

    It would be interesting to have a look to see if there are any traces of a weir though if there was such remaining I guess it would have shown up on the OS 1st edition 6’’ map.

    Kind Regards

    Michael

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1349
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 27 March 2020

    That’s a striking hook, for sure, but the fields are NE of Rockvale towards Brighouse, I think feature aka ‘head of the rocks’ would have been the larger rock-shelf to the NE.

    As I say, it’s hard to judge how it would have looked 1000 years ago, it does have a parrot-beak shape, but the pool it encloses does look a natural site for a fish trap.

    in reply to: Hac Noose, Brighouse #1348
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Michael Ansell – 27 March 2020

    Good afternoon Alan

    I can see you delivering a paper on ‘Fish traps in Galloway – the evidence of the names’ covering dabhaichean, caraidhean and now this potential OE one and comparing to Nendrum etc. Maybe another idea for the event we had been discussing for April?

    Can I check where you mean in respect of the hook please, see attached?

    Kind Regards

    Michael

    in reply to: Carnellan (Ingleston, Twynholm) #1340
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 19 July 2020

    It’s probably no help at all, but Carnellan is on record as a Cornish surname, probably from a place-name, though not in Oliver Padel’s Cornish PN Elements. He mentions Carnello x2, but gives no opinion on the 2nd element, and the first could be carn or corn. Bannister’s 1871 Glossary of Cornish Names, where I found it online, suggests ‘elm?’ That would be elowen, not paralleled in Welsh; C elen, W elain, ‘fawn’ might be more plausible. I don’t find anything remotely similar in Archif Melville RIchards, but W cornelyn ‘small corner’ might just be in the picture. Suffice to say, it might just possibly be Brittonic. But without more earlier/ varied forms and/or any idea where it was, we’re entirely in the fog.

    Still, thanks for the additional reference David!

    in reply to: Carnellan (Ingleston, Twynholm) #1334
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Michael Ansell – 18 July 2020

    Many thanks David. It is strange that Sir Herbert Maxwell didn’t mention it. Nor does it seem to feature in any charter documentation that I have seen. So it’s good to see evidence of its 18th Century existence at least. I’m curious as to whether it might have been a quarterland, ceathramh (a quarter) can be rounded down in the anglicisation process to carn/cairn, amongst other things.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by John Shields.
    in reply to: Carnellan (Ingleston, Twynholm) #1333
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From David Devereux – 18 July 2020

    Just a quick note to let you know that  ‘Carnellan’, Twynholm, is mentioned in the Kirkcudbright Kirk Session minutes in 1776. Two servants from there  – Alan McConnall and Helen McGown  – came before the Session. The spelling of the p-n is the same as on the Gillone and Ainslie maps. Good to have documentary confirmation of the place, but I guess a variant form of the spelling might have been helpful.

    in reply to: Carnellan (Ingleston, Twynholm) #1332
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From Alan James – 30 June 2020

    Yes, there seems to be no trace of Carnellan post-Gillone.

    The name is intriguing, the closest hint I can find is the name McGillelan mentioned by Watson CPNS 164 as ‘chief of Clan Connan in Galloway in the reign of David II’.

    Now he’s Mac Gille Fhaolain, and (one of the numerous saints named) Fáelán was the dedicatee of Kilfillan in Sorbie (Watson has ‘Kilphillan in Wigtown’),

    and ‘probably’ commemorated at Airyolland x2 in Glenluce and Mochrum, and Ernfillan in Crossmichael, see https://www.saintsplaces.gla.ac.uk/saint.php?id=461

    This Carnellan might be added, at least as ‘possibly’? Mind, as the name means ‘little wolf’, *carn an fhaolain might have meant literally that.

    I’ve copied Gilbert back into the discussion, his opinion would be helpful.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by John Shields.
    in reply to: Carnellan (Ingleston, Twynholm) #1331
    John Shields
    Keymaster

    From David Devereux – 30 June 2020

    Thanks for pointing out Carnellan. It also appears on Ainslie’s county map of 1797 (but he may have simply Gillone’s Kirkcudbright map?) but not on Roy’s survey or on the 1st ed. OS as you say. So far I haven’t been able to find any further reference to it in documentary sources – no mention in the 1819 valuation roll – so it’s a bit of a mystery. The site of Carnellan may be occupied now by the walled garden for Cumstoun (NX 684 536), dated to the early C19th, and almost certainly related to the building of the mansion in 1828, after the Maitland family acquired the estate c.1819 (see John Gifford). So that might be the time when Carnellan disappeared. I’ll keep looking for any other references to the place.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by John Shields.
Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 111 total)