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From Gilbert ?? – 8 August 2020
Just a couple of thoughts.
But Nay could be but an eich ‘horse’s butt’ – in the land-holding sense rather than the anatomical!
Shed Field. There is Sc shed, shod, shad ‘a strip of land, a separate piece of ground’. One of that nice range of words cognate with scissors, schizomenos, scindo, schizophrenia, shit …. all to do with dividing or separating.
My suggestion of faithche/faiche for Fominoch is given with great hesitation – see the note under that name, which is really to say that I doubt it, but one has to make the occasional nod towards Herbert Maxwell (who turns out to have been yet another relations, by marriage, of my wife Rachel) if he says something that isn’t too fa-fetched an one can’t think of anything better.
All the best
G
From Michael Ansell – 7 August 2020
Yuk! Reminds me of cleaning our pond a few weeks back, there’s a certain type of worm in there that burrows into ducks etc but will try to do so to Humans, it gets in but dies just under the skin. My son had several of these, you can imagine the mess he was in.
I’m not sure the disyllable is an insurmountable problem, if that’s what it is, the G word toll is pronounced (at least to my ear) as towl.
Robby is finishing his paper relating to his presentation at the CatStrand in 2018 and his enquiry is to do with that, I’m not sure exactly why he wants this pronunciation.
Any old timers down there likely to know the term?
Cheers
Michael
From Alan James – 7 August 2020
I take it Roibeard’s wondering whether it’s related to Gaelic deal-tholl, as is said in the SND, from deala ‘a leech’ + toll, verb ‘to bore’, noun ‘a hole’. MacTaggart’s spelling towal makes it look like a disyllable, which I suppose raises doubt about Gaelic toll. But ‘gell’ is Gaelic geal, listed by Dwelly as a variant of deala.
MacTaggart’s explanation is gruesome: ‘The horse-leeches … continue sucking so long as they can get a drop of blood, while the life-stream flows out of their nether end, whence the name “Towals”, or tails, leeches at either end.’
Sleep well!
Alan
From Alan James – 7 August 2020
Hello David
Thanks very much, most helpful notes. And thanks for reminding me of Tait’s map, very relevant here. I agree the crossings over the estuary must have varied greatly over the years, after a storm what had been a safe route could well have been washed away and another one formed on a different line. Only a few locals with intimate knowledge would have been able to pilot strangers across. I’m pretty sure it’s the ‘Coup Foord’, Tait’s ‘a’ in similar labels has a top-tail – and coup here would refer to basket-traps for salmon (DOST coup2, sense 1).
I’m inclined to believe the story that offloaded ships’ ballast was used to improve the soil, whether or not it was actually lime, or calcareous rubble of some kind, it could well have been dumped here from ships to lighten the payload before they entered the channel to the old landing-place, ‘Cally Port’ (still marked on the 1854 0S map), and was found to be useful on the land, just as broken crockery has been ploughed in since Neolithic times. More systematic use of marl and other sources of lime was indeed associated with the era of agricultural improvement, this opportunistic use of ballast may not have been part of that – or only very indirectly, in that boats from across the Solway may have continued to offload ballast here after the canal became operative, and their ballast might have had some lime content.
Thanks for the references for ‘fey’. I think Ann probably got it right – it would be interesting to know how David Austin pronounces it, ‘fee’ or ‘fye’? DOST has two citations from a 1669 document concerning the kirkland of Wigtown where it appears as ‘feiy’ and ‘fey’, while close to home SND quotes William Nicholson mentioning ‘Sandy’s fey’. Gilbert also suggested ‘fey’, he thinks it’s from Gaelic fai(th)che, which does seem to refer to fields of various sorts, including (Dwelly sense 6) ‘green by a house’. However, SND gives an English derivation, ‘from Mid.Eng. fēȝen, to clean, O.N.fgja (sic, should be fegja), id. The n. develops from n.Eng. dial. fey, to remove the surface soil, to spread manure, of the same origin.’
The note about the 1682 valuation of the original Murray holdings is very helpful, it throws light on other names now surviving as field-names – Knockewan and Millerton on Rainton, and Cuffieton on Cally Mains (where a house has the name, though it seems to be on the site of Bar Hill Cottage, which may not have been the location of the original Cuffieton). Marcelstoune must be Marshalton, also now on Rainton land: that, and Pont/Blaeu’s Masselstoun are weird, but I think they must be versions of a Scots form from Old French Marescal (c.f. Marischal College in Aberdeen), i.e. the Galloway surname Marshall. Accounts of the ‘Gypsy King’ generally assert that was a Gypsy surname, but I don’t think necessarily so – though if the family were evicted by the acquisitive Murrays, I suppose they might have taken to the road.
Bucht, b(o)ught is indeed a common term in Galloway for a sheepfold, or ewe-milking pen, there are Bucht Fields at Ingleston and Lennox Plunton, but the ‘ch’ [x] is strongly persistent, it’s unlikely to underlie ‘But’. Moreover, it’s not Gaelic, it doesn’t have any Gaelic parallel, its closest cognates are in the Germanic languages, and I’m pretty sure it belongs in a complex of words in various Scots dialects with varied meanings having in common a sense of something ‘curved’; they represent a weak-verb past participle form of the OE root bug- ‘bend, bow’, a Scots parallel to English ‘bowed’ (in either sense, ‘bow-shaped’ rhyming with ‘road’ or ‘bent over’ rhyming with ’loud’). Be all that as it may, I think it’s unlikely to be in But Nay, which appears to be a Gaelic generic + specific form (though I think G buta in the sense of ‘a truncated rigg’, which seems plausible here, is probably a borrowing from Scots/ English ‘butt’)
The indications of the March Dyke on Tait’s map are helpful. At Carrick, it apparently coincided with ‘the bounding dike of the parks of Cally’, but also with the parish boundary, I think that was the primary sense of ‘march’ here.
The information about the ‘castle’ is very helpful – I’d failed to find it on Canmore, so I am grateful to have your report. The field at present is apparently called Laggie Wheelie, and that’s likely to be an old, Gaelic name. Nevertheless, what you say implies that the field was at the time of the 1850 Survey named ‘Castle Hill Field’ (and maybe that was the name David Austin gave to you in 2002?), but the location of the eponymous castle had been transferred from the hill-fort at the north-east to the cairn on the hill at the south-west. That’s not impossible, though it leaves Laggie Wheelie hanging in uncertainty. And, as you say, it’s unlikely that the bordland served or was associated with either of these ‘castles’, I think it’s likely to have been the home farm of the secular lord based at Cally, although some distance away, the land farmed probably comprised at least what now belongs to both Boreland and Cally Mains. Alternatively the Bishops of Whithorn, if their grange/ ‘palace’ at Enrick was grand enough for Edward I to lodge at, might have maintained a bordland.
Finally, I was a little surprised by the spelling ‘Austen’ on Rachel’s list, probably a typo. I associate David Austin with roses, not with novels!
All the best
Alan
From Nic Coombey – 7August 2020
Michael
yes it would be good to right some of the misunderstandings caused by McDowall – his book still seems the source of much that is found about place names in South Ayrshire. Perhaps the good work in Borgue could be used to encourage communities in Ayrshire to take another look.
nic
From Alan James – 7 August 2020
Yes, a few years back I put a note in Scottish Place-Name news about ‘Carrick Gallovidian’, nominating it as the worst book ever on Scottish place-names (though admitting the competition is strong, there’s some very crazy stuff out there!) The author, Kevan McDowall F.S.A.Scot., was quite a kenspeckle figure in Edinburgh in his day, best-known for advocating an Imperial Parliament to govern the entire British Empire, within which Scotland would have ‘Home Rule’ with the status of a Dominion (like Canada). Maybe it seemed a good idea at the time … But one gets the impression of a pretty intelligent fellow living in a fantasy world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kevan_McDowall
Alan
From Michael Ansell – 7 August 2020
Thanks Nic
I like your warning about the ‘Carrick Gallovidian’ book on the link. I remember getting into stiff debates when I was timber transport officer and talking to communities in Carrick who had fallen for the guff in that book! Some of them were black affronted by the suggestion that the interpretation might not be quite right!
Kind Regards
Michael
From Nic Coombey – 5 August 2020
Thank you Alan
this is very useful and could be the basis for structure of future talks, publications and articles.
I plan to use classification themes to write some items for the PLACE blog which includes some efforts to explain the geology for the Stinchar Valley; https://biosphereplace.tumblr.com/
I will send any blogs on field names to you all first to check that I have not got mixed up with all the information.
Nic
From David Devereux – 5 August 2020
Dear Alan
My apologies for the delay in getting back to you on your very informative report on the Boreland of Girthon field-names, which also raises several interesting points of local history. Please find re-attached your report with some thoughts inserted here and there in blue, which I hope may be helpful.
I see that Tait’s 1761 map – A Plan of the foot of the River Fleet exhibiting the several fords and roads leading thereto, with the adjacent shore and houses – is now accessible on nls/maps (estate maps) – here’s the link https://maps.nls.uk/view/216390173 . It’s a useful source in connection with your study and I refer to it in the attached.
A minor correction – please note the spelling of David’s surname – Austin rather than Austen.
thanks again and best wishes
David
Update from Graham and Margaret Wright – 31 July 2020
Hi Alan
Just to let you know that Graham has updated the Cally maps
http://www.gatehouse-folk.org.uk/detailpage.asp?d=290&ID=9
Cheers
Margaret
From Alan James – 12 July 2020
Thanks Mike, helpful as ever.
Carraig, I think in Galloway at least developed a specialised meaning as a rock jutting out into the sea from which it is convenient to fish from, a fishing stance. That would surely be the case with Carrick Point? That would certainly be very appropriate.
Airds Fie. This looks to me like an alternative spelling of Scots fey, originally from faithche? Could be, Scots fie could be various things; assuming its from Gaelic it could be (na) fèithe – there’s a boggy patch marked here on the 1854 map. but can Ann or Rachel confirm it’s not a typo?
Syllodioch. As you say, very tricky one. I don’t think deagh would work, as you say it seems always to precede the noun it is describing, even in abstract senses like deagh bheachd (good idea or opinion). If I were to bet I’d implicate Sliabh as the generic (Ian Fraser I think has pointed out the multiple meanings Sliabh (eg mountain, moor, slope, moor-grass etc) can have so the location may not rule it out). Simon has dealt very fully with the meanings and frequency of sliabh, in Galloway and elsewhere, in JSNS 1 2007, primarily disproving the Nicolaisen – MacQueen hypothesis that the ‘Slews’ on the Rhinns are evidence of early Gaelic. Undoubtedly the sense of ‘rough grazing’ could have been appropriate here, or up on the ridge where the wood lies. And in favour of sliabh, the nearest both geographically and phonetically are Slochabbert across Wigtown Bay in Kirkinner, Slewheubert 1457, and Slogarie in Balmaghie, Sleugarre 1482, Sleugarie Pont/Blaeu etc.
But the first vowel, evidenced in Pont/Blaeu Saladyow remains a problem. Epenthesis is phonologically possible, but in all Simon’s long list of sliabh names in Scotland, including many Lowland Scots forms, there are no parallels, nor do I see any in Ulster or IoM.
As to the specific it looks a bit like G. deoch, drink, but the genitive form dighe takes us away from the current spelling/pronunciation. And ‘moor of drink’ would be an odd formation! Actually, the gen. sg. dighe (so in Calder, Dwelly gives dìghe – of geekish interest to me as one of the few survivors of the OIr -u declension, when it was dige) is consistent with the pronunciation [sɪ’lodȝi] reliably obtained from James Finlay – but the spelling looks (deceptively? cf. Pont/Blaeu) like the nom. sg. deoch. As you say, hard to see what it would mean in a p-n.
I suppose Sliabh Dabhaich, ‘moor/slope or whatever of hollow’ might be possible, maybe from a conspicuous hollow in the ground? I don’t see any hollow here any more than elsewhere in the area – where it’s all humps and bumps anyway. Lag and, even more, lagán are the favoured terms for the hollows round our way, I think a dabhach would have to be a distinctively ‘cauldron-like’ one, I’m sure it does have that sense in the splendid corrie on Knockendoch above New Abbey, but I can’t see one here.
But Nae is fascinating, have you contacted Gilbert about it? Gilbert’s in this mailing – I was thinking he might be interested in this one!
Why this should crop up in Borgue and Bute only in Scotland is really odd. Gilbert’s point is that G but in the specific sense of ‘a small farm’ is peculiar to Bute; elsewhere it, and Scots butt, refer to a truncated rig or a detached portion of a field, which would be the case here.
I agree with your comment on gender fluidity in Galloway. Is there any explanation of this phenomenon (Joyce and Broderick also note it in Ireland/IoM respectively I think). Is it something that happens as a language is going into decline and grammatical conventions break down? I’m not aware of any sytematic study. It could reflect a late stage – though not necessarily ‘decline’, after all, English lost grammatical gender in the transition from OE to ME, but it’s no doing badly the day! But in some cases – I’d need to check on faiche – nouns that were neuter in early Celtic were somewhat indeterminate after that third gender expired in the early stages of Goidelic and Brittonic.
Cheers
Alan
From Michael Ansell – 12 July 2020
Good morning Alan, thanks for these very interesting and thorough notes. Just a couple of comments:
Carraig, I think in Galloway at least developed a specialised meaning as a rock jutting out into the sea from which it is convenient to fish from, a fishing stance. That would surely be the case with Carrick Point?
Airds Fie. This looks to me like an alternative spelling of Scots fey, originally from faithche?
Syllodioch. As you say, very tricky one. I don’t think deagh would work, as you say it seems always to precede the noun it is describing, even in abstract senses like deagh bheachd (good idea or opinion). If I were to bet I’d implicate Sliabh as the generic (Ian Fraser I think has pointed out the multiple meanings Sliabh (eg mountain, moor, slope, moor-grass etc) can have so the location may not rule it out). As to the specific it looks a bit like G. deoch, drink, but the genitive form dighe takes us away from the current spelling/pronunciation. And ‘moor of drink’ would be an odd formation! I suppose Sliabh Dabhaich, ‘moor/slope or whatever of hollow’ might be possible, maybe from a conspicuous hollow in the ground?
But Nae is fascinating, have you contacted Gilbert about it? Why this should crop up in Borgue and Bute only in Scotland is really odd. I agree with your comment on gender fluidity in Galloway. Is there any explanation of this phenomenon (Joyce and Broderick also note it in Ireland/IoM respectively I think). Is it something that happens as a language is going into decline and grammatical conventions break down?
Kind RegardsMichael
From Alan James – 26 July 2020
Aye, I was listening recently to some recordings you can find on YouTube of Somhairle Macgill-Eain reciting ‘Hallaig’ and others of his poems. His pronunciation is fairly similar to the way I was taught by Alasdair MacMhaoirn (now at Sabhal Mor), albeit with a bit of a ‘Canadian Gaelic’ accent. I’d say both sounded ‘ao’ more like French ‘eu’ than English ‘oo’. But listening to younger Gaelic speakers, it does seem to have shifted that way.
I think the tendency for -ach to shift to -och is quite widespread, though different factors may have been at work in different places, Leodhasach is very distinctive in many ways. But in the south I wonder whether Brittonic -ǭg might have had some influence. Like Alex Woolf has suggested for Pictish, it may not have been a simple matter of Gaelic replacing the P-Celtic language, rather absorbing it.
Alan
From Michael Ansell – 26 July 2020
Yes I see what you mean Alan. I certainly hear ‘oo’ as the main element in native Gaels pronouncing craobh today and they understand me (without quizzical looks) when I pronounce craobh as something like crooeve. But they might (probably are!) be being indulgent!
Another interesting point was a G teacher I had, Màiread NicLeoid was from Lewis and always pronounced the terminal ‘a’ in words like sionnach as ‘o’, ie shinnoch. I remember discussing the word glasach, a green field or fallow field, with her and she pronounced that exactly like a local would pronounce the place-name Glassoch in the middle of the Wigtownshire moors.
I had thought the ‘o’ vowel sound in place-names here was a product of Scotticisation but it might have reflected the GG accent?
Kind Regards
Michael
From Alan James – 25 July 2020
According to Ronald Black, ‘ao’ is pronounced with the back of the tongue raised, as for [o], the lips spread as for [e]. I agree that modern Sottish Gaelic speakers do pronounce it as a rather higher vowel, so more like tongue [u], lips [i], so it can sound a bit like ‘oo’ to English ears. But the medieval scribes had good ears and were right to hear it as a combination of [e] and [o]. German ‘ö’ conversely is pronounced with the front of the tongue raised as for [e], but the lips rounded as for [o], but the resultant sound is pretty similar. In Irish, it’s become a purely front vowel, [i:], and that seems to be reflected in some parts of Scotland (e.g. Crieff), but in Galloway it seems to have kept its [o]/[u] character.
You’re right that ‘oo’ is not commonly used in Older/ Middle Scots orthography. In Middle English if would represent long [o:], but Scots (somewhat confusingly) sometimes used ‘oi’ for long [o:]. But I think you’re thinking of long [u:] (‘oo’ in Modern English spelling), if they were marking the length, that was ‘ui’.
I think Cruffock has a short first vowel, like fuffock or Suffolk? That must have been shortened in Scots, it was probably adopted early.
Pretty well all the forms we’re discussing show that in Galloway ‘bh’ between vowels had become [ṷ] (i.e. approaching [w]) which would have been absorbed by the preceding vowel in words like craobhach, riabhach etc. It wouldn’t have been [v] as in modern Sc G, but more like Irish in that respect.
Croy in the Central Belt is recorded in that form from 1369. Nearer home, Croy Brae near Culzean is nowadays more often called Electric Brae, it’s where the road looks to be going uphill when it’s actually going down, so cyclists can play at freewheeling uphill! I think these are cruadh.
